The difference between the songs we feel, as opposed to those we simply hear, is what lies in between.  You can’t help but feel “Edge of Light,” a new studio album by former lead guitarist for Genesis, Steve Hackett.  The album, to be released January 25, 2019, takes the listener on a musical journey with an eclectic assortment of instruments delivering powerful rock and orchestral arrangements.  When the journey ends, you’ll want more.  Fortunately, he’ll be following up the release with a Genesis Revisited tour beginning in April to celebrate “Selling England by the Pound” and Spectral Mornings.”  It was my pleasure to speak with him recently about the impact his global travels have on his music and to get his take on the evolution of music then and now. 

GW: The new album, “Edge of Light,” is like going on a journey, not just from one song to the next but within the songs themselves.  For instance, the suspenseful orchestra that starts the song, “Beasts in Our Time” is followed by a rock guitar solo at the end that really packs a punch.  Yet, in between, the vocals, sax, and flute bring a sense of calm, hopefulness.  Was that your intent for the album at the outset or is that the result of the process you went through in putting the album together? 

SH: That’s so interesting that you mention that particular song.  If you listen to only one track, listen to that one.  I love the sound; unusual harmonies, you feel something is brewing.  It’s dramatic.  It was originally intended to be the first track of the album because it’s firing on all cylinders. 

GW: The song you chose for the first track, “Fallen Walls and Pedestals,” sounds like the revolution is coming. 

SH: Yes, exactly.  Slow and fast, it starts powerfully with marching drums before it becomes orchestral.  It’s a fast sequence of events.  Audiences have a short attention span; there are more changes in the 1st 15-20 seconds, more than I’ve ever tried before.  I don’t write chronologically; I work on separate things; one song at a time until all content is complete.  Then I work on the order.  There was a thread that runs through the lyrics and instruments, the idea of crumbling empires and that’s what drove me. 

GW: Why was that?

SH: I travel a lot.  I visited Jordan and saw some extra places like Petra.  It was like Indiana Jones.  A city of rocks, sculpted, fixed, monolithic.  I went to Jerash, Jordan and to Turkey.  To think of a once great empire, I had that sense of that foreign edifice going on which influenced my recording.  Some places specifically were influences, Roman/Greek ruins, Arabian. 

GW: That explains the striking album cover photo.  Where was that taken?

SH: The cover was photo-shopped, in the imagination of wonderful photographers, Angela and Maurizio Vicedomini.  I traveled with them.  The natural formations look sculpted, like they can’t entirely be natural. 

GW: I noticed the faces in the rock formations in that photo. 

SH: They were working in Germany when they put that together.  The menu page with the DVD will have a star field with lightning.

GW: There’s a great pace of the drums in “Under the Eye of the Sun.”  Of all the songs on the album, that one evoked some memories for me of earlier Genesis and even Yes’s album, “Fragile.”  Have you heard this kind of feedback about your more contemporary music? 

SH: Amanda Lehmann’s vocals contributed to that song, we tracked several times.  The pace is more Yes-like, I’m just going to go with that aspect.  In fact, while I was with Genesis, I met Yes’s Chris Squire, so talented.  We did a several numbers together.  I was asked to join Yes.  I was so flattered.  He and I shared an appreciation for orchestral music (we were both choir boys), harmonies, specialized.  Only a few guitarists like playing with orchestras.  We liked violins, viola, cello and Bach, the basis of guitars (they’re all string players), we don’t draw a distinction between the instruments.  Many balk at the idea of symphonies with guitar. I also admire Jeff Beck, King Crimson, Queen.  I did eight dates in the UK recently with an orchestra; it went phenomenally well.  Starting tomorrow, I’ll be working on that. 

GW: Is that your next album? 

SH: I heard lots of orchestras, and this is more than any other rock album I’ve done, at least 2, with nylon guitars with philharmonic orchestra.  If you broaden your thinking, an orchestra can be any size.  It doesn’t have to be big.  Sound can be big. The last two albums were with an orchestra.  We used a Tar.  We used a Sitar from India.  Stringed instruments, unlikely instruments, like Didgeridoo.  You’ll hear the Sitar and flute, violins and rock.

GW: As you said, there’s such a range of musicality on the album including a wide variety of musical instruments, not to mention the vocals and chorus.  They all play off each other to conjure up a range of emotion for the listener; suspense, curiosity, serenity.  That’s rare in music these days.  Do you notice that and do you think that simplicity has any relevance with the current state of the world?

SH:  I came to the conclusion, when exposed to rock, it was exciting.  Then big films took on the same influence as what rock did.  Groups and orchestra, the power of film, soundtracks, were bigger than rock.  With rock, you had a close mike and a few players in your face.  With an orchestra, percussion, it’s like watching a movie.  Size, drums you know an army is coming.  The influence of films diminished the appeal of music video, extra perspectives.  We need to broaden rock.  I always wanted to bring scores/tribes together.  Orchestras don’t have the defining edge of rock.  It’s like the Queen Mary floating off somewhere.  I want that to happen orchestrally, chorally to have changes addressing diminishing audiences, nail the color to the mask.  You give what you get in film for the ear rather than eye.  It’s unpopular to be popular; you’ve got to swim against the tide.  I’ve been told this all of my life, go out on a limb.  I’ve got a global way of thinking about my music (comprehensive, all inclusive, progressive, fusion).  Not all over.  Formats tighten up, that’s what happened in the 70’s.  The best albums had a tighter leash.  I think, let it all hang out, be experimental try to push it.

GW: Given the complexity of the album, how did you and the others collaborate?

SH: When I was young, I was accepting.  But ambitions change. I used to stare at guitars in windows and say, "that’s what I need.”  You need a racing car to race laps around the circuit.  You need proven tools to do that.  Who wouldn’t be freaked to join a band, write a song, make an album or work with an orchestra?  I’m very lucky, life could have taken a turn for me, but I’m an idealist.  The people I work with, the core band, that’s key.  I add the best around the world.  The song “Underground railroad” is authentic, gospel vocals with Pink Floyd’s Durga McBroom.  The women on the album are amazing, Loreley, I met them on a boat tour.  With such vocal style, you have broader palette.

GW: I didn’t see U.S. tour dates listed; do you have plans to come to the U.S.?

SH: We’ve got 160 tour dates through the world, we’ll be touring Selling England By The Pound, Spectral Morning, plus more to be added for U.S.  There are so many dates, too many to list.  Where are you in the U.S.?

GW: On the East Coast, right outside of NYC.  We have great venues here, Philly, NY, Connecticut.  I guarantee sold out shows.

SH: I love all those places. Connecticut, I have lots of memories there.  Bruce Willis came to the show.  He plays the harmonica! It always surprises me, who the fans are.

GW: I’ll be looking forward to seeing you here in the U.S. for the tour.  Do you still stay in touch with the other members of Genesis?

SH: I do stay in touch.  In fact, I was with Peter recently when he was releasing his book. 

Let’s hope we can see them all together again soon.

What do the Hawaiian Islands, white knights, and tin foil hats have in common? Individually, they are immediately something to be curious about.  In combination, they represent the boundless imagination and artistry of eclectic musical legend, Todd Rundgren.  Rundgren himself is an individual whose life is something to be curious about.  Thankfully, he recently released his autobiography, The Individualist: Digressions, Dreams and Dissertations, which documents his life through his 50th birthday.  While his prolific career as songwriter, guitarist, and producer spans five decades, he’s not showing any signs of slowing down.  He’s following his book release with a tour and is a nominee for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, class of 2019 with other progressive artists like Stevie Nicks, Devo and Roxy Music.  Based on my recent conversation with him, Rundgren’s autobiography is his first, but it may not be his last.

GW: Congratulations on being nominated into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.  What are your thoughts about being nominated?

TR: I try not to think about it, it’s a mysterious process.  Things that I don’t have control over or things that I can’t predict, I don’t invest a lot of time in thinking about it.

GW: In preparing for this interview, I thought back to your White Knight concert last year at Count Basie Theatre in Red Bank.  The music, the production, the audience, there was so much energy.  What’s in store for us when we see you at your “Individualist” tour?

TR: It won’t be exactly like that because that was a theatricalization.  I guess I’m trying to do something that satisfies both the fan’s desire to hear a lot of the more familiar material, which is appropriate to the release of the book.  It covers the first 50 years of my life; therefore, it covers the period of my music that is most familiar to people.  It’s not just going to be a concert where I’ll play a whole bunch of songs and talk about the book a little.  I’m still trying to figure out the right balance.  I have about 45 songs that I have to further shorten that list down.  I’ll probably come up with several melodies, probably compress three or four songs down to one, to save time, and we’re trying to figure out a way to do some Q&A from city to city without it interrupting the musical moment because still, it’s supposed to be a substantial musical presentation.

GW: It doesn’t sound like you’ll be playing “Tin Foil Hat.”

TR: (Chuckle).  That was written after the first 50 years.  I suppose it’s artificial because I can play anything, I want, but I decided no music that was created after 1998.

GW: I’m looking forward to reading your autobiography, The Individualist. You’ve done so much after 50 though, why a hard stop at 50?

TR: The book stops at my 50th birthday so my concert will be paralleling that period.  The music business changed a lot after 1998, so a lot of my releases, many in the 1990s were independently produced and distributed.  I didn’t have record deals after that.  The whole way I made records, promoted the music, the amount of time I spent on the road, changed considerably after that period.  There isn’t as much production work that would have kept me in the studio.  Things changed in a lot of ways that made it appropriate to cover the first 50 years. 

GW: There’s something about your voice, it’s compelling despite the type of song you’re singing.  Was it your ability to sing that propelled you into music initially or perhaps you played a musical instrument or were influenced by a family member?

TR: When I first started out, I didn’t have confidence to be frontman, I didn’t work on my voice, I never had singing lessons.  I sang in choir in junior high, I considered myself a baritone at the time.  I learned a little from that, the fundamentals.  With my first band, Nazz, I was a background singer.  In the second record, I started singing ballads which were mostly vocals which were then replaced by the real lead singer. I sang in the studio when I first started making solo records; I had no experience singing live.  When I had to go out after the first album, and put together a band and perform in various places, I couldn’t get through the first 15 minutes without blowing my voice out, and these sets were only 40 minutes.  Sometimes you had to do two sets a night.  I didn’t understand what you were supposed to do; I was just making sure I hit the notes.  Then I started focusing on the singing.  I did a lot of listening to other singers.  I spent a lot of time listening to Stevie Wonder’s album, “Signed, Sealed, Delivered,” there was so much impression on the voice that you could hear the breath he was taking, I realized I was singing from the wrong part of my body.  I didn’t realize singing from the diaphragm; the stomach is what was needed to have enough power to start doing what you needed to do with your voice.  I started changing the way I sang.  It took years to have the full effect.  Ultimately, it’s resulted in my ability to be able to sing for two hours and not lose my voice. 

GW: That’s a long time considering you’re doing more than just singing on stage when you perform.

TR: There’s a lot of moving around in the show like White Knight.  Contrast that with the Unpredictable shows which we’ve been doing, we did three legs this year just sitting on a stool.  I can barely walk afterward because I hadn’t moved around enough.  It’s one of these things where I guess I feel uncomfortable standing still, I get antsy.  I feel like there’s distance between me and the people, the size of the theatre keeps getting larger and larger, unless I make physical move in that direction.

GW: Moving is a way to connect with your audience.

TR: That’s partly it.  It’s not necessary in every song, especially if a ballad.  It’s taking the place of the guitar.  It used to be I’d use the guitar as a shield, protection between me and the audience.  In that sense, I got over not needing the shield but substituted joking around, to avoid being shot at, I guess.

GW: Especially if you’re singing “Tinfoil Hat” and someone doesn’t like it.

TR: Oh yeah!

GW: You’ve had a multidimensional musical career from performing on stage with bands, solo, top charting songs to producing amazing albums like Meatloaf’s “Bat Out Of Hell,” the Psychedelic Furs, “Forever Now,” Patti Smith’s, “The Wave.”  How are those partnerships formed, are people coming to you, is it happening organically?

TR: Historically, the old record industry, pre-2000, had a standardized way of connecting artists to producers from A&R departments where they negotiated advances, depending how much in demand, how badly artists wanted you. I was fielding a lot more work than I could handle at certain points.  Not only have things changed with record labels, but also the cost of making a record has come down as the cost of equipment has come down so now anyone with a few thousand can use their laptop and mic and teach themselves how to produce.  That whole thing diminished compared to how it used to be.  In the last few years, I’ve gotten more into collaborating with other artists. There are a couple of purposes.  One, it helps me to get out of my own echo chamber.  I live on the island of Kauai, so it’s not easy to call a session together.  I do a lot of recording myself.  With the advent of file-sharing services, it’s made it possible to collaborate with people all over the world with ease, so I’ve been doing that. With the success of White Knight, I decided that until I get a better idea of what kind of album I want to do, I will continue to do collaborations.  There are lots of artists with material that is unfinished.  I enjoy listening to someone else’s ideas, perhaps switching A and B around then writing part C.  It’s a fun way to make records and is also a great way to expand your audience. 

GW: Audiences would appreciate that they get the best of both worlds.

TR: Yes, and I’m exposing the artists to my audience, and I’m getting exposed to other artist’s audience.

GW: You seem to be a very busy man; how do you spend your downtime or do you even have any downtime?

TR: Well, I barely leave the house when I’m at home.  I walk the dogs every evening.  I take them down to the beach.  Otherwise, a lot of what I do is mental work.  I have a show, so I have to figure out how it’s going to go.  I’m always reviewing possibilities and the technical requirements of those possibilities.  I’m doing original work in Holland next Fall, something that’s going to be done from scratch.  It’s not entirely me, there are other collaborators, so I’m figuring out storylines, best places to put songs.  I still have a small stack of collaborations I’m working on, and I continue to add to that when I complete the others.

GW: It sounds like you’re always thinking about music, even in your downtime.

TR: I guess in downtime I’m still thinking about music.  If I’m not making it, I’m thinking about making it.  I get asked to do remixes and guitar all the time. If I don’t do anything for too long, I start to feel guilty that I’m not taking advantage of the time given me, so I will ultimately, inevitably, get something accomplished.

Not only will many of us become the beneficiaries of that sentiment, if we apply that mindset ourselves, we benefit.  With a new year upon us, what better time to remember to take advantage of the time given us and get something accomplished.